Its kinda long but here’s the Hepcat interview!

This is an interview I did with Greg Narvas and Lino Trujillo of Hepcat back in 2003. Hepcat had just reunited after a four year hiatus with an amazing show at the House of Blues on Sunset in Hollywood which is still one of my [...]]]>
from Iration

Its kinda long but here’s the Hepcat interview!

This is an interview I did with Greg Narvas and Lino Trujillo of Hepcat back in 2003. Hepcat had just reunited after a four year hiatus with an amazing show at the House of Blues on Sunset in Hollywood which is still one of my all time favorite show memories.

So thanks to Greg and Lino for taking the time to do this interview, sorry it took like four years for me to do anything with it, but hopefully you all enjoy anyways! – Kyle Hickenbottom

Kyle: How did you hear about ska?

Greg: My first experience with Ska was in the 7th grade (1983). I had a friend who used to make Madness and Specials stickers and they’d be plastered everywhere on campus — lockers, walls, you name it. I used to totally dig the Ska Joe logo and the whole two-tone getup even though I didn’t know who Madness and The Specials were.

Even when Madness’ “Our House” became a big hit, I only kind of liked it, but still really dug the imagery and fashion they presented. I didn’t know Madness and The Specials were “Ska”; I just thought they were some kind of underground bands.

My curiosity really got piqued, though, when I saw a Rudie on campus during P.E. …I mean, here we all were in our ragged gym shirts and sweats, and this kid walks by in a trench coat, stingy brim and bug eyes, with pristinely pegged pants and shiny loafers. On the back of his trench coat he had this huge Ska Joe logo with loud pink and white checkers, with the words SKA on it. I recognized the logo instantly, but wasn’t sure what SKA was.

From Greg’s Comic “I Was A Teenage Philipino Skinhead”

I thought it was some kind of club or secret society. Either way, I was impressed with the whole deal, because he stood out and was different from everyone else…and yeah, his outfit was bad-ass.

It wasn’t until I ran into my cousin Rob sometime in the 9th grade (1985) that I understood what “Rudies” and “Ska” were, namely because he himself was a Rudie at that time and explained it all. I thought it was completely bizarre to be into bands that weren’t together anymore (Specials, Selecter, etc.), since I was a total New-Waver at that time, into the current and latest bands. Yet once again, it piqued my curiosity, so I got into the scene soon after.

From Greg’s Comic “I Was A Teenage Philipino Skinhead”

The first early Ska tune I heard was Phoenix City (Roland Alphonso and The Soul Brothers), which the DJ put on one night at “Gino’s,” a mod/ska club we hung out at every Friday night. It totally blew me away.

I mean, it sounded old and rickety as hell, with tinny instruments, dated drums and hisses and pops, but at the same time it was heavy. I remember my cousin that night, making a bee-line to the DJ booth afterwards to ask what the song was. He came back to me all excited and said, “Dude! He said that was done by The Soul Brothers. That song was bad!! Who the hell is The Soul Brothers though??”

We weren’t even sure if that song was “Ska,” because it sounded so old, and completely different from all the 2-Tone stuff we were skanking to. But all our questions were answered when he bought “Club Ska ‘67,” the album which the DJ told him “Phoenix City” was on. To this day, I still think that album is one of the best ska primers in existence. Big time. And “Phoenix City” rules.

Lino: I heard about ska through friends when I was a freshman in school. I always knew about it I just wasn’t really interested. I was listening to punk at the time.

Kyle: Do you remember your first ska shows?

Greg: Of course. The first ska show I attended was Bad Manners / Fishbone at Fender’s Ballroom (Long Beach, CA) in February 1986. Rob invited me to go since I was pretty eager to join the scene after hanging out with him for a while. This was also going to be my introduction to the rest of his crew, who were all mods and rudies.

Courtesy of Greg Narvas

Only problem was, I was still a trendy New-Waver and had no clothes to keep me from sticking out like a sore thumb. So I raided my dad’s closet — he’s a real thrifty guy, and he’d hung onto old duds that he used to sport in the mid-to-late 60s. Luckily him and I were about the same size. He laughed while I put on shirts and pants that hadn’t been worn for about twenty years. He must’ve thought I was crazy.

Rob’s crew was a fun, rowdy bunch. Going to the show, there must have been like 8 of us crammed into an old Caprice, with a 16-yr.-old driver who had no license. We put a cardboard sign in the back window that said “BAD MANNERS OR BUST!!” so that everyone on the 405 could see where we were headed. I was surrounded by parkas, patches and Perrys while Ska played on the radio. I knew right then that this was the scene for me.

Fender’s held Mod and ska shows all the time back then. They were almost always known as “Mod Expos” and would attract tons of people and mod scooter clubs. There would always be long lines of shiny, dressed up Vespas and Lambrettas parked in front.

The next big show I remember was a Thanksgiving show in November of that same year. I still have the flier, complete with a big skanking turkey on it. No Doubt played that show, and I’m still wondering whether or not that was their first one ever. Gwen shared the stage that night with that other singer who committed suicide later on.

Courtesy of South Bay Scooter Club & Dan/Babette

And man, they rocked. You should’ve seen the whole front row of skinheads ogling little Gwen on stage – she was a knockout. We all wondered who her boyfriend would be in the crowd, then got disappointed when she walked off with a trendy-looking fella. I wonder why they never recorded anything from those early days. They had some real explosive energy as a ska band and moved the crowd. I was impressed that kids around my age were able to do that on stage.

Lino: My first ska show was the Untouchables at Magic Mountain. My next one was Madness at the Palladium with Fishbone.

Kyle: How was the scene when you first began attending shows?

Greg: I remember very distinct lines between mods, rudies and skins, music- and fashion-wise. There was this small club called “Gino’s” on Santa Monica and Vine (Hollywood) was a regular spot for us. When the DJ played ska, the only people on the floor were rudies and skins.

When the DJ switched to soul, all the mods and soul boys came out while the rudies and skins took the wall. It was like, your turn my turn. We coexisted and all, but made our distinctions very clear. Same with fashion. There were dress codes and unwritten rules that couldn’t be broken. Mods wouldn’t be caught dead with docs on. Rudies and skins would never wear bowling shoes or desert boots. There was no such thing as in-between. Everyone was seriously defined by what they wore and listened to.

Despite these distinct borders, we were all united. That was the cool thing about it all. Wherever we were, it was always exciting to run into other people “in the scene.” It’s like, they’d become instant friends because they were into the same thing. We all partied and got along.

If anything, our only enemies were “Nazis.” And even encounters with them were uncommon. But if rumors ever spread at a show that “Nazis were coming,” everyone banded together and prepared for it. There was a huge showdown once at Fender’s when a small group of Nazi skins showed up, only to face a venue full of people who didn’t want them there. At one point, practically the whole club was chasing them down like a swarm of locusts. It was amazing. And this was pre-SHARP, pre-anything. It was just unity, plain and simple.

The other thing I distinctly remember was exclusivity. Nowadays, at Ska shows, you’ll find a broad spectrum of different people, many without labels or definition. Back then, ska shows were exclusively attended by mods, rudies and skins – nobody else. We were a proud, possessive and territorial bunch of kids who were dedicated to our subculture and music. Being “trendy” or “normal” meant ultimate boredom, so we tried our best to set ourselves apart. I think the same went with everyone else (punks, goths, etc.).

But scenes never mixed. Punks stayed with punks, goths with goths, etc. Going to a show where you didn’t “belong” usually meant ridicule or straight up trouble.

Kyle: Greg, when did you start playing drums? There is something to ska drumming that most people have a hard time nailing but you hit it right on the mark. What do you think it is about ska drums and do you have any tips for aspiring drummers?

Greg: Thank you for the compliment. I started playing drums in ‘87, with an oi! Group called “Lion’s Pride.” I was a skinhead at the time, and though I didn’t listen to oi! (being a traditional skin), I didn’t mind playing it.

As time wore on though, I yearned to play ska, but not just 2-Tone stuff. The real old stuff. So I would drive our bass player nuts playing ska rhythms in between songs at practice. He was a real oi! Boy, and he’d tell me, “Man quit playing that ska shit. I don’t wanna hear any of that ska bullshit during practice. Here, we play oi! And nothing else.”

Meanwhile, our guitar player, Martin, knew Greg Lee, and he told me that Greg was looking to start a ska band. So there was my chance to play ska after all. And I took it.

As simple as ska drumming seems, I think it’s difficult to get the feel. That’s the hardest thing to accomplish in any music genre — the feel. Your passion has to come through in your playing. The tough part about reggae is, if the drums and bass aren’t feeling it, then nobody’s feeling it. That’s where the pressure is, in reggae – to provide a groovy, heavy foundation.

Ska takes that feeling to a different level. In the most fundamental sense, a traditional ska drummer has to provide what I call the “bounce and dip” feeling that one should feel in the pit of their stomach as they listen to it.

That hi-hat has to compliment the upbeat (bounce), and that kick drum has to drop on that downbeat (dip), with the crack of the rim shot. And this is all done in soulful precision with the rest of the rhythm section. One has to connect with them in order to get that heavy foundation.

That’s the delicate balance that makes it difficult. Not to sound cliché, but it’s sort of like Desmond Dekker’s “Reggae Recipe”. One needs the right amount of each ingredient in order to make it taste good. And when one has mastered the recipe, then he/she can start adding some extra spice and flavor of his/her own.

I can go on and on about it, but to put it simply, an aspiring traditional Ska drummer should consider what ska is…dance music. Therefore, one’s goal as a ska drummer should be the same as a ska DJ – to make the people dance. One must also be aware, by all means, where ska came from – its African, American and Caribbean roots, and play it with this understanding.

Kyle: How did the band meet and form? How did you get the current line up?

Greg: According to the rest of the cats, a lot of them used to be in a band called Sharpsville Step, which was unfortunately short-lived. That’s what I understand. I met Greg Lee through Martin as I mentioned in the previous question.

Martin had told me he knew someone that wanted to start a ska band, so I arranged to meet this person at a Skatalites show at The Whiskey in Hollywood. This was in late ‘89. I still remember our conversation like it was yesterday:

Greg Lee said: “So. I heard you want to play ska.” I said: “That’s right.” “Would you want to join a ska band?” he said. “Well, that depends. Who are your influences?” I asked. I had to ask the key question. At that time, nobody was doing the old stuff. And I didn’t want to join a band that was going to sound like everyone else.

Trust me, I thought he was going to say “English Beat” and “The Specials” at the very least. But no. “Oh, Gaylads. Ethiopians, Melodians, you know…” replied Greg. I was amazed, my jaw dropping. “Holy shit!! Are you serious?” – “Hell yeah I’m serious! Are you?” he said. “Yeah I’m down!”

The current lineup is basically the Scientific crew sans Raul Talavera. We all got back together because we thought it’d be fun to play a few shows again like the old days. I mean, the real old days.

Lino: Prior to Hepcat, I was in a two tone type band with Greg Lee, Deston, and Joey Urquijo. So we got together with Alex and worked on a couple covers and a couple originals. The covers we did were “Hopeful Village” and “Stop that Man”.

The originals were “Nigel” and Earthquake and Fire”. My ex girlfriend Rose worked with Raul’s sister Maria and she said her brother could play sax so we met Raul and he was interested in joining. We still didn’t have a drummer so I think Greg Lee suggested Greg Narvas who was drumming in an oi band called Lion’s Pride (I think that was the band).

We played for a while with this lineup and then eventually we got Dave Hillyard after Donkey show broke up. After me and Joey left we were replaced with Dennis Wilson on guitar and Dave Fuentes on bass who came from a band called the Federales. Since then there have been other changes but it’ll take too long to go through them.

Kyle: Why traditional ska when no one else was playing it at the time?

Greg: For precisely that reason, I suppose. You’ll hear Greg Lee say this in every interview when he gets asked the same thing – that “we wanted to play what the DJs played in between sets at ska shows. The old stuff…Paragons, Skatalites, etc.” I guess we loved the old sound so much that we couldn’t get enough just listening and dancing to it. We had to play it. So we took a shot.

Lino: We chose traditional ska because we really dug the music. We used to hear this music and say that it sounded real hard to play, but after a while we started to get the hang of it and realized we could play all of this music we loved. Lets Go Bowling and Jump with Joey were already doing this type of music before us but I think we were the first ones to do a strictly Jamaican style ska sound.

Kyle: What were the early crowds reactions like?

Greg: Our first gig was at a house party in the Valley in 1990. This guy Rami was notorious for holding great scene parties, and he invited us to play. We barely had 6-7 tunes down solid at the time, but we decided to do it anyway. I remember being really nervous while setting up in the backyard. I wasn’t sure how they were going to take it – we were a new ska band about to play old ska. But when we got going, the crowd really dug it.

I think during the second tune I got overwhelmed by the whole experience and just started busting up laughing while I was playing. I mean, really cracking up. For the first time I was hearing ska, and I wasn’t dancing, I was playing it. Instead, I was playing ska and people were dancing to it. It was totally surreal. I just saw all these people facing me and skanking, with all these dedicated faces. Like a ska army on the march.

Lino: Let’s face it, we weren’t the best musicians in the world but we had original material and we had a lot of friends coming to our shows to cheer us on. After a while we got a pretty good following in L.A., O.C., and the bay area. The cool thing about it is these people still come to see us. We just did a show in November at Slim’s in Frisco and Bobby and Joe (the people the song was loosely written about) were there with there daughter. We still see people at shows that we were seeing 12 years ago.

Kyle: How did you hook up with Moon for the Out of Nowhere album?

Greg: Hmm. Wish I knew. Out of everyone in the band, I was probably the least involved in business and political negotiations. All I remember is that out of nowhere, we were set to do an album. So I did it.

Lino: The deal with Moon came about after I left the band the first time, so I don’t have the specifics

Kyle: What was the general reaction to the album when it was released? Was the traditional scene picking up steam by then?

Greg: This is also a very vague memory for me. You know why? By the time I finished recording Out of Nowhere, I was completely fed up with the album. I felt rushed, out of par, and was disappointed that it didn’t come out the way I wanted it to. So I kind of blocked the whole experience out of my mind and tried to forget it ever happened.

I happened to succeed at this – I heard “Skaravan” playing once in this place called Limbo Lounge in Cerritos mall, and didn’t even know it was us. I was like, “Dang, who covered Caravan?” True story. I didn’t even listen to the album until about ‘98, for the first time in its entirety.

But I can tell you this — when the album came out in 1992-93 or so, the traditional scene was gathering exposure, and there were more budding traditionalists at that time than there were in my day (’85-’88). However, it was still a minority, far, far outweighed by a brand new breed of ska which was generally dubbed ska-core.

You couldn’t find a greater contrast in crowds — those into the dusty oldies and those into the shiny new. We would play before both these crowds and get mixed reactions, from gleeful dancing to stale, blank expressions.

It was kind of weird at first, but as we kept playing, we gained a reputation for playing “60’s style ska.” Yet this term itself was hard to explain to a growing public who believed that ska-core was the real ska, since it was making headlines. I remember once, trying to tell this kid that we played “old ska.” And he said “Old ska? Oh you mean like The Toasters?”

I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. Yes, we were swimming against the current, but we did have some people who believed in us and our music. Thank you, by the way.

Lino: I came back with the band right before Out of Nowhere came out. So I can tell you the reaction was pretty good. Prior to the Moon release, we had “Ooh Ooh a Hi Hi” released on a compilation so some people already heard us. But I think Out of Nowhere gave us the chance to show other material.

After the release of the record, I noticed more bands getting together and doing this type of music, which was really cool because you could see a whole scene developing around the old Jamaican sound. Some really good music came out of that period.

Kyle: Why did you leave Moon and go to BYO for Scientific?

Lino: I think we went to BYO because they gave us a pretty good offer and we only had a one record contract with Moon. Though one of the problems was that BYO was mainly a punk label so they did all of their promotion in punk magazines and I think they weren’t too serious about us until Epitaph showed interest in us.

Kyle: Why did you leave BYO for Hellcat? How did you get hooked up with Hellcat?

Courtesy of Hellcat Records

Lino: We had a one record deal with BYO so after we did Scientific; we were approached by a couple of different labels. Epitaph told us that they were going to be starting a ska sub label and thought we would fit in nice. They even named the label Hellcat which they said was a punk take on Hepcat. So Epitaph did some deal making with BYO and we ended up on their label.

Kyle: How did Scott Ables and Aaron Owens come to join the band?

Courtesy of Hellcat Records

Lino: After a while I personally wanted to get my own life together so I decided to go back to school and try to get some kind of career going. So I decided it would be better if I left and let someone else take over so the band wouldn’t suffer.

That’s when Aaron Owens came in. I’m not sure, but I think Joey Altruda introduced him to the band. And as it turns out, Aaron has become a really good friend of mine and has taught me a lot of stuff about guitar. Right before I left the band, Greg Narvas left.

Anyway, the band was approached by Scott Ables who used to play with Lets Go Bowling. He had made an overdubbed recording of himself playing over Hepcat songs that sounded pretty good so the band hired him on.

Kyle: After the split, many members went on do work on different projects. Can you tell us a little about what you have all been up to lately?

Greg: I wasn’t around for the split, but I think Kincaid has the most on his plate as far as other projects. He’s in two different bands; one of them I think is his own baby (Soul Traffic). His dedication to them really shows. I know Dave and Deston play with Dubcat pretty frequently too.

As for me, I’m looking into doing session drumming. I’m also thinking of starting a Boogaloo band for a hobby, but perhaps as a back-up singer rather than a drummer/congero. Alex has thought about doing vocals too. We totally dig that stuff. Anyone know how to play Latin piano? That’s going to be the hardest spot to fill.

Lino: Efren has a home studio that he writes music on and has been working with different artists. Scott Ables also has a home studio where me, Dave, Aaron, Deston and Scott did some recordings with the name Vanity 5. The Phoenicians were the same group but instead of Deston it was Matt Parker and instead of me it was Brian Dixon from the Aggrolites. Scott has also been doing some reggae loops for Cypress Hill.

Kyle: Why did Raul Talavera leave the group before Push N’ Shove was made?

Lino: I think Raul left the band to get his own life together. He also got married and has a son and is doing pretty good.

Kyle: What caused the group to get back together for the reunion shows?
Greg: Good question. A bunch of us were called to form the house band for The Reggae Nucleus Anniversary Party at The AlterKnit Lounge, in March ‘03. It was Chris Murray’s idea.

We didn’t have a name, so we were dubbed “The Reggae Nucleus Players.” This was the first time I’d played with any of those guys since ‘97 when we recorded “Penny Reel”. But we clicked. Naturally. (Laugh), I just thought of Olive Garden. “When you’re with Hepcat, you’re with family.” Pretty much. Just like the old days. We tore it up at the show and had a blast. It also caused quite a stir amongst Hepcat fans, who began to ask each other if it meant we were coming back.

So Deston approached me after the show, and asked if I’d be interested in playing again with the guys. I had a feeling he would ask me that, too. There was that weird silence in the air while Deston and I were bringing our equipment back to our cars. Kind of like that weird, electric tension right before you ask someone to be your girlfriend or something, but it’s like, she’s just waiting for you to do it anyway, because she digs you too.

So I told him I’d be down for it, as long as it wasn’t a full-time gig – meaning no tours, record deals or other major commitments. I already had enough on my plate as a husband and full-time Graphic Designer. He was cool with that, so not long after that show, we had this big sit-down with all the cats at Acapulco’s on Ventura Boulevard in the valley.

In between swigs of beer and chomps of chips, it was pretty much revealed at that sit-down that all of us were into this reunion just for fun. We all had other things going on and weren’t about to drop everything to re-start the band. We just wanted to play and enjoy ourselves. Which was cool with me. So we made plans.

Kyle: Though the shows have been few and far between, there have been more than people expected, is Hepcat on the road to getting back together for good?

Greg: I wouldn’t say so. Like I said in the previous question, we’re just into it to play some shows here and there, to enjoy ourselves. Like a hobby.

Lino: Because everyone has so much stuff going on in their lives right now, we decided it would be better to play shows here and there. Greg Lee lives in Costa Rica which makes it tough sometimes, but also we didn’t want to burn out our welcome. So it works out just fine.

Kyle: Can we expect some new Hepcat material in the future?

Greg: We are looking to do some new stuff now and then to keep things fresh and interesting.

Lino: Everyone has songs that they’ve written and we play something new once in a while but the problem is that we usually only practice leading up to shows so we want to give people the songs they want to hear.

Kyle: Anything else you would like to add?

Greg: Not at this time. But I do appreciate the opportunity for the interview. Thanks.

Lino: Thanks for your interest in our band